The taint of Mary Sue-ism (rant-ish)

[winter]

When was the last time you saw a good female original character in a fanfic, anyway? Or do you just stop reading once a female OC appears?

This came to my attention today. See, I've been posting my OUATiM fics to the Pit of Voles recently, with a pretty positive response (including one piece of feedback that had me going O_o ... !!!!!! because HER liking a story of mine is just... unbelievable), but one I received today for Back in the Fold, the first story in my "Sands strikes back" series, got me thinking. It was very positive, but there was this one line.

"I think I might be able to tolerate Davis as well- if she can deal with Sands she may be worth watching"

"Davis" is Carmen Davis. In the story, she gets all of three lines of dialogue and exactly five words of description, one of which is "female". There are two other original characters in the story, both of whom get much more description and dialogue. The catch? The other two are male.

Satan's sake. Why is it that you can write all the male OCs you want, make them villains, love interests, friends, bystanders, what-will-you, but the moment you make an original character female, everyone's Mary Sue warning bells go off? I don't blame the reviewer at all: I get the same reaction, and it saddens me. The thing is, sometimes the thing you're aiming for has to feature a female OC. Like if you want to show a character's reaction to a damsel-in-distress situation (Sands or Kamui or Hisoka unwillingly pressed into the role of a gallant knight, anyone?), you need a damsel. But many people won't write that story at all, for fear of having it cried off as a Mary Sue. I know I'd think three times before attempting it.

This - limits the artistic expression of fanfiction writers. A lot.

(And, um, Carmen's not a Sue, is she? She has a grand total of eight lines over four stories, and basically plays sidekick to Sands the same way Bellini did, only with less onscreen time. Hell, in First Blood she and Lorenzo mirror each other's roles the way Sands and El do. She's just someone who can react to a situation to up wordcount or throw Sands a gun if he needs one.)

*sigh* Nothing to it, I guess. Back to my Nano I go. I want to win this thing.


[EDIT] Just got another review, this time for Things to do in Sinaloa when you're dead. "I thought the woman was an original and I'm glad to be proven wrong". Unfortunately the reviewer didn't leave her e-mail - I'd very much like to ask her why it's a good thing she's not an original character. Are original characters the mark of a bad fanfiction writer and it's just that I didn't get the memo?

Comments

[sleepykelvina.livejournal.com]

I feel your pain. This is why most of my female OCs are either young children, or middle aged. *sigh*

[shoiryu.livejournal.com]

I think one of the keys is to just... be as careful as possible in constructing your female OC, and try to balance them. I just recently created a new one of my own, for one of my RPs- female mercenary. She's got a cute face but her left eye is glass and she's missing her left arm at the soldier- fighing in mecha will do that to ya. She's tough but she's not beautiful, she gets her job done but her personality doesn't shine. She just is who she is and she plays a relatively minor part in the story.

I think that's another key, with ALL OCs, not just the female ones. If you make them too important, people get upset. I've got an X OC, Kioshi. He's a Sumeragi, and an onmyouji. He's not an heir to anything or central to the main plot of X, he's not Subaru's best buddy and he's not dating a Sakurazuka. He's a college kid who takes care of Subaru's spill-over jobs when Subaru can't handle all of them. His power isn't even half that of Subaru's. He's a minor stitch in the tapestry of X, barely even worth a mention.

I read both your stories, and I didn't get the idea of "Mary-Sue" at all. People are just really, really quick these days to call Mary-Sue, it seems.... Don't let it get to you. ^_~

[rackhamrose.livejournal.com]

I agree with Shoi about balance, and about making sure the flaws are real and human and that they become evident in some way... but I think the key is that you have to give her a reason to be where she is, which it sounds like you actually did. (Haven't read the OUaTiM fics yet, as I haven't seen the movie and wouldn't know what the heck was going on...)

OCs aren't the mark of a bad 'fic writer; often they're necessary (and not a necessary evil), if you're doing certain types of scenarios--say, a canon character who's an assassin/lawyer/maker-of-sandwiches-at-a-deli interacting with a client, or a canon character who needs the services of an assassin/lawyer/maker-of-sandwiches and cannot plausibly get them in canon. In male-dominated casts, it's tricky to slip in a female OC because you have to get across the point that she's Not Interested in messing up any potential romantic/friendship dynamics--but without explicitly stating, in a snarky hip Joss-Wheedon-esque way, that she's Not Interested (god, that irks me SO MUCH when the source series isn't Wheedon-eque in tone)... but it's exactly the same when you try to slip a male OC into a female-dominated cast.

In short, after talking your ear off: OCs are, in my mind, the same as any other risk you may take in 'ficwriting. Do them in an intelligent way, agonise over them and make sure you get them to a point where you're satisfied with how everything plays out believably, and you're good to go. And in my experience? The people who go "eww, that's just wrong!" after you've gone out on a limb and done your best aren't the people you want to be reading your fic anyway.

[sukeban.livejournal.com]

FWIW, I don't think most male OCs of the uke persuasion are that different from damsels in distress :)

By the way, Beth, I wonder if you can get in Poland Arturo Pérez- Reverte's La Reina del Sur (The Queen of the South in the future English translation). It's the story of a woman from Sinaloa who ends up as a drug lord, and maybe you could use some of the background for your OUATIM fics.

[winter]

*laughs* Guess what book I referenced in both Things to do in Sinaloa... and First Blood. I *heart* Perez-Reverte and have all of his books that came out in Polish. I reference him very heavily in my Nanowrimo project, the main character's always reading his books and lending them to people.

[sukeban.livejournal.com]

XD Sorry, I haven't seen a single Mariachi movie (I wanted to see El Mariachi first, but I still haven't got round to it...), so I didn't read your OUATIM fics. I've also got most of his books - this Christmas I'll be getting El Caballero del Jubón Amarillo (the latest in the Capitán Alatriste saga about a swordsman for hire in the Madrid of the 1600s) *or else* XDDD

My favourites are the Alatriste books, The Club Dumas, The Queen of the South and The Fencing Master. The Seville Communion and The Nautical Chart were a bit weaker in the plot, I think.

[winter]

I haven't seen El Mariachi either - just Desperado and OUATIM. Not necessary for understanding the latter two movies, definitely.

Unfortunately the Alatriste books haven't been published in Poland yet, though I'm betting it's just a matter of time. His books are selling very well as it is. Beside those you mentioned, they also published The Flanders Panel. I don't think I can really pick favorites - apart from maybe a slightly lesser liking for The Nautical Chart, each is different and great in its own right. I guess it helps that I grew up on the kind of adventure novels he references, Sabatini, Dumas, Feval, the works :)

[sukeban.livejournal.com]

Yep, I got The Flanders Panel too, but I think it's a way too early work... I don't like his characterization and the way he wraps up his plot very much. It isn't very different from The Club Dumas, but TCD has all that Three Musketeers stuff :P

Pérez-Reverte's weakest point is IMO that most of his heroes are the same world-weary, cynical bastards that hold to some outdated values (honor, history, Catholicism, whatever). They tend to look all the same after a few books.

By the way, Buckingham appears as a character in El Capitán Alatriste, and his demise at Felton's hands is commented. In the beginning it was planned that he'd write a book called Misión en París, so I still haven't despaired from a Three Musketeers crossover *grin*

I think I've only read Scaramouche from Sabatini, but I loved it even more than the film. What about the Baroness Orczy and the Scarlet Pimpernel? :3

[maymorning.livejournal.com]

I've recently written a Sands story with an ofc, but it's honestly, cross-my-heart not Marysueish at all. Basically, she's there to illustrate my theory of the whole Sands/El thing.

When I was younger I used to love slash, but lately I am finding it to be rather disturbing. I am particularly distubed at the lengths that folks go to to ignore female characters that were in the movie (or tv programme). I know, it's getting worse with film makers marginalising women ever more than they used to. Now women seem to function as nothing more than dead wives/girlfriends to provide a bit of angst. It's only when you get a movie which has few if any male characters (such as "The Others) that women get a chance to kick ass for themselves. And as a woman, I am puzzled, confused and yes, disturbed. So much so that if any ofc creep in, all heck breaks loose. I suppose it's my age (42 if anyone's counting) though I was in at the early days of slash as a reader (when it was known as K/S). It just worries me, that today's young women will have no Bette Davis, no Greta Garbo or Marlena to watch. When women actors are churned out on a conveyor belt with one-size-fits-all features and personalities.

Anyway, thanks for the post. It was interesting.

[muzivitch.livejournal.com]

I feel your pain, definitely. Most of my original characters are minor and middle-aged, and female, usually, as well. If they were young instead, I'm sure I'd get screamed at for using a Mary Sue.

And no, Carmen is not a Mary Sue. Because she's not the center of everything, and that's at least what I think of a MS as being.

[winter]

First, thank you :) *friends back*

And yeah, gender stereotyping in fiction in general is one of the roots of the problem. But hell, if we - the supposed modern, open-minded fans, and all in all predominantly female - stomp on people trying to write those strong non-stereotypical female characters, something's bloody wrong with the picture *sighs*

Ah well, life.

*wonders if she can get away with writing Rosemary Jocelyn Sands as an original character*