Television opinions

[winter]

In brief:

Game of Thrones - I didn't read the books, and I think that might be why I'm so repelled; I don't know who those people are, and instead of making me care (with the exception of small humanising moments for Clan Stark), HBO's going through the predictable checklist of "let's shock people!!!" that made me stop watching True Blood, combined with stock political fantasy material. Unless the second episode presents a dramatic departure, that'll be it for me.

The Borgias - This, on the other hand, I like lots. My kind of murderous priests, and the storytelling is aces ♥ Doesn't hurt that Jeremy Irons is having the time of his life, and Cesare-guy is adorable when he goes all threatening. (And the women - Giulia Farnese in particular, possibly the first time in American television I've seen the other woman done as a sympathetic character.)

Castle - Still watching, still enjoying :) This and Mentalist remain my mostly-mindless entertainment shows. (And White Collar, when it's on.)

Doctor Who - WHY ISN'T IT EASTER YET?

Comments

[yumenotatsu.livejournal.com]

... I've read the first two Martin books, this is why I'm not watching. I had enough of the books...

[winter]

Point taken :) I think I'm too attached to good character-work.

[cosmos14.livejournal.com]

Game of Thrones. haven't read it too! but, there are 2 or 3 interesting characters that intrigued me. XD

True Blood. lost interest. beh.

[winter]

I think the total for me are the dwarf brother and maybe the smaller of the Stark girls :)

True Blood-wise, I like the books as a guilty pleasure, plus Eric's fantastic throughout, but I have the feeling the series would have me fast-forwarding far too much.

[liaku.livejournal.com]

AGoT's early sections (ie, episode 1) are told from the Starks' POV+Daenerys, so its much easier to sympathize. The events aren't much different though, except the wedding night with Khal Drogo is consensual.

[winter]

I think Danaerys-wise, that would make a lot of the difference, but most of all having it narrated - with I persume some motivation etc - rather than just closeups of her white and trembling face and backside all the time ;)

The thing is, I can hear the good writing in the dialogue. It's just the translation to visual that's taking away something. I have this problem with a lot of book adaptations.

[littleshebear.livejournal.com]

Dany goes through a massive change, she eventually becomes the most powerful character in the books, with easily the most stable powerbase, which is a good thing in one way but bad in another because she turns into a raging mary sue. I'm hoping for a reality-check for her in book five.

[-leareth.livejournal.com]

Totally hear you about The Borgias - I think just in terms of subject matter I'm going to enjoy it more than Thrones - I love the conniving, the politics of religion, and the time period is just such rich pickings for a historical drama. Gritty fantasy has it's place, but medieval settings vs renaissance, I'm going with the latter.

[winter]

The thing is, it's a similar setup - sweeping (faux)historical plotting - but the contrast is in the emphasis on characters, religion and balanced storytelling. I particularly enjoyed the recap of the political situation in #4, with Rodrigo's lecture to Joffre :)

[reynardine.livejournal.com]

Give GOT a chance to get to the real plot--the first episode seemed a little lackluster, since they had so many characters to introduce--this first episode condensed nine chapters. Give the show four episodes at least. It is honestly one of the best series of books I've ever read. Hands-down.

I've never had a story affect me so much as making me throw a book across the room after a certain scene (which was in book three, although there's no telling when they'll fit it in the series).

As for the characters, just wait. There are a few in there that I loathed at first, but are now my favorites (I won't say which so as not to spoil you). They change, they grow. Readers become heavily invested in them, which can be dangerous since you never know what Martin will do.

HBO threw in more sex than was there (although there is a lot of sex in the books, don't mistake me). Dany's storyline starts off with a LOT of inner dialogue and backstory (she's very much defined by the events of Robert's rebellion), so trying to portray that onscreen was going to be difficult. To be sure, I thought the Dothraki parts of the show a bit weak--but then that whole arc was never a favorite of mine.

[winter]

I think it's the backstory and narration that I'm missing. It just all reads like illustration of a book I haven't read. Definitely hoping for plot improvement, and less "let's shock the viewers!"

[seraphim-grace.livejournal.com]

I loved the books and found the ep a little cold
Dany loves Khal Drogo and he tries to move mountains for her and that was poorly done
but one thing I did love about the books and it's too early to show is that just because you think you have someone pegged doesn't mean anything, villains can be good people, good people can be villains
there was also, because House Stark has six kids, this sort of wide brush of going on, apart from Bran, Arya and Sansa there was little effort in explaining the other kids
who are all very important.
the whole white walkers thing is Jon's story
but it's a cast of hundreds in the books, each of which has their own stories and motivations and at the moment it's just too soon
I really liked the books, and it's not a radically different translation like True Blood, it's quite close
but it's not Legend of the seeker so I'm considering that a win!

If they stick to the politics of the books it should be a good show, but there are so many characters and so many twists and snags and betrayals it might be too much
also don't get attached to anyone!

and jon snow is not ned stark's bastard, he's his bastard nephew after his sister's rape, which was only vaguely suggested in the scene with the king in the tomb.

[winter]

See, that thing with Jon Snow, I missed completely. I think they're just going way too fast for anyone who hasn't read the books to keep up.

[littleshebear.livejournal.com]

For the purposes of the show, Jon is Ned's bastard son, who he fathered during the war against the Targaryens with some peasant called Wylla. that's why Catelyn can't stand him.

Yes, there's a suggestion in the books that he's not Ned's son but his sister's (Whether or not it was rape is still unclear, there are hints that she ran off with Rhaegar willingly). That suggestion hasn't been introduced in the show yet and I'm glad for that. I think to try and introduce that in the show at this stage would be a mistake, there are enough characters and plotlines to get to grips with as it is.

[winter]

I'm starting to think that starting the series without the books is akin to watching Star Trek Nemesis and trying to make sense of it ~.~ They definitely dive in far too fast.

[littleshebear.livejournal.com]

But what I'm saying is you actually haven't missed anything about Jon Snow. If you got that he's Ned's bastard, that's all you need to know right now.

The reviews I've been reading say that the first two episodes are the weakest because there is a lot of set up to get through. After that they get really good apparently.

The setting is pretty Grim-Dark (which I love, personally) but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea.

[winter]

I don't mind Grim-Dark as long as things make sense and people have motivation beyond "look how edgy I am" or "my boobs are hanging out" ;) We'll see...

[rkold.livejournal.com]

I'm not watching GoT and I've not read the books (I've sworn off ever starting a fantasy series until it is finished.) and I feel sort of odd since it seems like everyone I know is watching it and loving it and I just keep thinking.. this does not appeal to me. At. All. The Borgias on the other hand make me wish I have cable just so I can see an episode or 2.

[winter]

Let's just say that I don't get Showtime here ;) Sidereel's a good source, and I recommend the Borgias in spades. This is one set of people I'd love to have to dinner, only I'd have to cook something that can be eaten by hand to avoid someone being stabbed to death before dessert.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I read the ASoIaF books (so far) and I've got the same complaints about the characters as you, despite that. Whenever soemone shows some humanity, they're quickly fetched back into amoral ice-cold bastard mode and/or beaten up/maimed/raped/killed. I'm not sure how much the series can get away from that, given that we're lacking the non-spoken, non-visible bits.

[winter]

I think I prefer the kind of villains who actually have higher motivation. It's something I think I saw jo_graham mention as annoying her - that in current American media, anyone with noble motives or any motives going beyond selfishness and immediate pleasure is automatically suspect and unrealistic, because heroes exist only in fairytales.

Which really tells you something about people who say those things...

[cairea.livejournal.com]

I read Game of Thrones and couldn't stand the idea of reading any more books like that. I'm not watching exactly because I know what's going on and it takes a lot to turn me off something with Sean Bean in it.

[winter]

Ohdear. I do think it sounds more and more like not my speed.

[cairea.livejournal.com]

I kind of feel like when people are recommending the series, they focus entirely on the complex political plot and how 'real' and 'gritty' the world feels without telling you that 'real' and 'gritty' means a lot of violence towards women (which, to be fair, is how a world like the one GRRM's set up would work, but augh I was sure surprised since no one said anything) and a lot of people who are not particularly sympathetic.

For complicated scheme-y plots and selfish main characters I vastly prefer Scott Lynch's books. Apparently there's a movie of The Lies of Locke Lamora in the works and I can't wait because I just want to see the city he created.

[winter]

...and since Scott Lynch was too in-your-face "look how edgy and not nice my characters are!" for me, that means I probably shouldn't read GRRM.

[cairea.livejournal.com]

Well, I will say that I think there are probably more just downright evil and otherwise not-nice people in Scott Lynch's stuff. GRRM's characters often seemed to be doing what they thought was best. I don't quite know what I think the difference is, actually, except that I actually liked the main characters in one and didn't in the other.

[winter]

...and I just got spoiled for GRRM's animal harm. Passing on that, I think.

[new_vogue_ravyn.livejournal.com]

I've yet to see the True Blood TV series, but the books were okay. I read the first four and was happy to leave it there. I will give the TV series a go sometime though. Game of Thrones IDK, not read the books so if we get it on channels I can watch I'm not sure if I'll bother with it. I am itching for The Borgias though, from what I know of the family and having seen The Tudors it looks like it would be brilliant entertainment. And Doctor Who is Doctor Who, ergo I will watch it when it's on. Even if Gaiman didn't write an episode for this series. :D

[winter]

I have to admit I read True Blood books for Eric, because he's brilliant :D I've heard it's the same in the series - one of these days I'll watch it by rewinding for the All Eric edition.

And oh, you'd love Borgias :D Let's just say Tom and Chie are my inner Rodrigo and Cesare casting, with Nene!Lucrezia.

[new_vogue_ravyn.livejournal.com]

Let's just say Tom and Chie are my inner Rodrigo and Cesare casting, with Nene!Lucrezia.

Ah, if only it could be cast! Cesare Borgia could be revived. Funny, when watching the last series of The Tudors I was all for a Takarazuka version (somewhat sanitised, of course). I could see Tom angsting and raging around as Henry VIII somehow.

[winter]

Fantasy casting is something of a disease now ;) Borgias would definitely have to be current Hoshigumi, because Toyoko would be a fantastic Cardinal Della Rovera. Mostly because I can see her stabbing someone in the eye in the confessional.

[new_vogue_ravyn.livejournal.com]

Toyoko would be a fantastic Cardinal Della Rovera. Mostly because I can see her stabbing someone in the eye in the confessional.

I could also see Chigi doing that but I'm not sure I could see the rest of current Yuki doing the Borgias. Cross troupe casting a la Susano-o? ;D

[sukeban.livejournal.com]

I'm 1/3 through A Clash of Kings and TBH the things that bother me the most aren't unsympathetic characters or the GRIMDARK setting but the little details, like dire wolves and aurochs coexisting in the same ecosystem (I mean, GRRM, if you're going to include American flora and fauna like wild turkeys or sweet corn in your Fantasy Medieval England setting, at least have the cojones to call the big wild cows buffaloes), or the daftest heraldry this side of A Knight's Tale — I've just read about some nobleman using a green sea turtle on a green field as a heraldic device. I am not making this up.

So, dunno. I'll probably finish the books, but I'm definitely not taking them more seriously than, say, the Belgariad or the Dragonlance. This is no LOTR.