On creativity and referentialism

[winter]

Still no writing done. And I switched to colour pencils, which have the advantage of not leaving my thighs covered with abstract artwork. I know I should go wash my hands each time I run out of smudging fingers when I work with pastels, but wiping them on my skin is quicker. (And no, I have no ambitions to create Art with my doodling; I just want to be able to produce workmanlike drawings that resemble the subject, because sometimes something just begs for illustration.)

I have, though, been reading the writeup of the Cassandra Claire Plagiarism Debacle. I have to say the writing's better - or maybe the subject less convoluted - than the msscribe saga. I must say that back-when I had the same problems while reading the Draco trilogy, and finally I gave up mid-Dormiens.

It's also made me somewhat paranoid about my own pretentious postmodern parlour tricks: how far can I go with referencing others? The sky over the bay was the color of a television tuned into a dead channel. Verbatim, unreferenced because I assume those who know, do, and those who don't, won't care, is this homage or plagiarism?

(And it doesn't help that I have a digital memory for quotes. There is a man, playing a violin, and the strings are the nerves in his own arm. If I love, I quote, verbatim and at length.)

Comments

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

that is relaly interesting stuff to read.... especially for someone like me who has a LOT of phrases and pieces in her head that bleed into her writing, but no idea where they came from - and they tend to sneak into my writing. Nowhere near as blatantly or directtly as Claire seems to have done, but.. iut still bothers me. :/

[winter]

I'm the same. I'm afraid at times I do it unconsciously, but at times it's conscious - a game of spot-the-reference, like in Pratchett. I read "Soul Music", someone says "two out of three ain't bad", I crack up; if someone reads it and has never heard the Meatloaf song, they go on without noticing. All of this has me slightly on edge. Though I must say I tailor my references to fit my work, not the other way around ;)

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

this is almost making me paranoid and want to go edit FotM and remove all the homages and in-jokes... but I figure that would not really be a good idea. becuase i am firmly convinced that what I am doing is hjomage and not plaguiarism.. thena gain, being firmly convinced is probably a sign that something is wrong :/

[winter]

You can always make an annotated FotM file that explains and attributes all homages :) Have your cake and eat it, too.

[arabwel.livejournal.com]

Heh, that would be pretty cool. although it might spoilt the fun for the readers t have a cheat sheet :P

[sukeban.livejournal.com]

On the matter of the second quote, I once said a line from The Crow to my then-boyfriend without noticing. It was rather cheesy in hindsight ¬_¬;;

IMO if the phrase is so widely known that nobody would try to pass it as their own, it's fair game for homage or parody.

[winter]

The point is, I have no idea if something that seems completely obvious to me (both of these, or I am a part of that force that always willing evil, always does good) is that obvious to my reader, who may not have read Master and Margarita and therefore the Faust quote that's the motto of the book :/

[murasaki99.livejournal.com]

If in doubt, attribute the quote, either in-line in text or as footnotes or endnotes.

While I recognize the quote from The Crow, I don't recognize the other, and I would assume it is your own writing. Attribute, attribute.

[winter]

I guess so. But it feels like spoiling the game ;) I hate long authors' notes. And you haven't read Neuromancer?

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Reading the retelling of the msscribe debacle and the CC plagiarism case is like watching a train wreck. It's ugly and you know you shouldn't watch, but there's a morbid kind of interest about it.

About the quotes... I've been avoiding quotes for that very reason. I'll take a half-sentence if a particular twist of phrase sticks, but not more than that. I feel I can get away with that much. And if it's well-known and a common catchphrase, I'd think of it as fair game.

[seraphim-grace.livejournal.com]

plagiarism is questionable at best, why bother to rewrite someone else's work if you're not going to change it.
referencing it allowed, i think it's less than 5% of other people's work you're allowed to publish, but a sentence here and there isn't going to affect anyone. It's like the line "the sun rose like a stripper", I've seen so many horror writers use it I have no idea who came first (I think it might be Clive Barker but, shrugs)
its when you lift whole paragraphs wholescale...

everyone appears to be having a bit of a drought with writing at the moment, so it's not just you.

[winter]

Actually it's less than 10%/1 chapter (whichever is smaller) of another work in yours, and that if attributed - otherwise no-one could make collages :) I guess I might just hope for intelligent readers...

[peck25.livejournal.com]

Thanks for posting that link, it's kept me amused during a pretty boring weekend at work :) I really enjoyed her LOTR 'Very Secret Diaries' but had heard nothing about this. I don't delve to much into fandoms and so miss out on these things (last thing like this I heard about was the Harry/Hermione shippers going nuts because JK Rowling had said that H/H would never happen, which amused me no end).
I'm not too sure that she has learned her lesson though. I may be being too critical since I've just read a big essay about her commiting plagiarism but looking at the blurb on her upcoming book, is it me or does that read a lot like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, even to the point that the character is called Fray (Joss Wheedons future slayer)?

I don't think you have too much to get paranoid about regarding your writing. Dropping in the odd line as homage/in-joke is no-where near copying whole sections of dialogue/scenes practically verbatim and then passing off the whole thing as your own work. Like you say those who know it should see it for what it is, those who don't will just enjoy anyway.

BTW, I really liked your pic from the previous post and am looking forward to seeing more.

[winter]

There's already a scandal in the wings, because both "DarkHunters" and the opening scene are similar to another author's novel - and that author actually trademarked Dark-Hunters, so we're out of the purely copyright-related area and into commercial intellectual property. I'll be interested to see how that one continues.

And thanks :) This drawing thing is fun, especially since I'm improving all the while. I'm packing art supplies for the trip, that's for sure.