Some Buffy questions

[winter]

My Joss Whedon experience is spotty at best. I've watched most of Buffy Season 1, about two-thirds of Buffy seasons 2 and 3, Angel 1-3 and then three quarters of 5. The problem being, I now want to write a Buffy crossover that, for plot purposes, has to be set after Angel discovers the Shanshu thing. This puts it between Season 4 and Season 5 of Buffy. Hence, characterisation problems.

• Willow's with Tara at that point and somewhat aware of her power, but at what stage of her transformation? Still geeky, Wicca girl, Terrible As The Dawn, somewhere in between?
  
  
• What was Giles' status throughout season 4? Any changes in his character since season 3 that I should be aware of? And what was he doing for a living - I believe he only opened up the Magic Box in season 5?
  
  
• And finally, I know what Spike was like at the time, but where was he living between Season 4 and Season 5? I saw mentions of a crypt, I suppose with Harmony tagging along?
  

I know there are Buffy fans on my f-list. I'm sadly deprived through lack of time and money to buy full seasons :( Help me out?

Comments

[settiai]

It's been forever since I've seen Season Four, but I'll see if I can help at least a little.

At that point, Willow's still pretty much geeky Wicca girl. She doesn't really start using the magic for darker purposes until somewhere between the middle and end of Season Five.

For the first half of Season Four, Giles was sort of lost. He wasn't technically Buffy's Watcher anymore, the library was gone, and his "kids" had all gone away to college. As the season went by, though, he realized that they still needed him... just in a different way. Season Four ended with the four original Scoobies (Giles, Buffy, Willow, and Xander) really getting back to their roots, and it was revealed just how much they depended on each other. Anya, Tara, and Riley weren't full-fledged members of the "team" -- that honor stayed with the Core Four.

As for Spike, he spent most of Season Four living in Giles's bathroom and Xander's basement. By the end of the season, though, he had found his crypt and was working on getting it set up like he wanted it. He and Harmony were sorta off-again and on-again at that point, if I remember correctly.

And, of course, Dawn appeared sometime between the two seasons -- most likely closer to the end of Season Four than the beginning of Season Five.

[littleshebear.livejournal.com]

If memory serves, Willow doesn't start to go really dark until season six (when she falls in with that warlock guy in that oh-so-sledgehammer anti-drugs allegory *cue eyerolling*). She goes utterly psycho during the last two eps of season six.

I think Dawn first shows up either right at the end of season 4 or at the end of the first ep. of season 5.

[settiai]

I was thinking more about how, at the very end of Season Five, she used some major magic against Glory -- especially after Tara is injured. She didn't really start going "dark" exactly... but it was where she started using darker magic.

[littleshebear.livejournal.com]

Ahh yes, yes, you're right there, the floaty knives of doom and so on. I need to watch season 5 again, I liked season 5.

[isis-whit.livejournal.com]

Who doesn't love the gigantic angst fest that was Season 5?

[littleshebear.livejournal.com]

Yeah, season 5 was angst, and it was good. Season 6 was wangst, and it was not good.

Angst vs wangst, the differences are subtle but so significant.

[isis-whit.livejournal.com]

And, S6 was Spuffy, and not much else. Oh, showing off JM's abs as many times as possible. *eyeroll*

[littleshebear.livejournal.com]

Yargh. Not. A fan. Of Spuffy.

I don't know, I might have been okay with Spuffy (I admit, I did have a quiet squee at the end of Tabula Rasa), just not the way it was handled. It was ludicrously over the top.

[winter]

Thank you so much! The Giles stuff really helps, and I'm glad to hear the Scoobies had their dynamic back - that means I can use the stuff I remember from seasons 1-3 after all.

Online timelines have Dawn being incarnated in August, so June or so should still be Dawn-free enough for my purposes. It's really supposed to be a spamfic, so the more characters I can lose, the better :)

[littleshebear.livejournal.com]

Willow: Terrible as the dawn stuff happens in season six seeing as season six is, well, terrible.

Giles: From what I can remember, he's just sorta bumming around. He doesn't really have a job to speak of that I can remember.

Spike: You know, I can't honestly remember. He hid out with Giles during season 4 because the soldier-dudes were after him. Season 5, I think he's in his own crypt. In between, I'm not sure.

[winter]

I see I'm not missing much about season 4 as it is ;) Cool, looks like I can make things up and no-one will remember whether it's right or wrong anyway...

[isis-whit.livejournal.com]

Right between Buffy S4 and S5? Oh, that's difficult.

Willow's definitley more growing into magic wicca girl by then, although she still does the rambling thing. He more intimate dance with the dark side comes later, mostly in S6.

Giles hasn't had a job during S4, he has a short fling with an "old friend" from England, Olivia, but otherwise was mostly bored out of his mind and felt useless because Buffy hung out with the "Initiative" (government demon hunter, of which the boytoy was a part). Midlifecrisis ensures. :p

There was a big fallout late in Season 4, mostly because of Spike's schemes. In any case, there was a big sort of hug-fest at the end of S4, and together, the four original Scoobies defeated the big bad of the season. Still, Giles considers leaving Sunnydale, and Willow knows about it. She helps him scanning a lot of his books etc. but doesn't tell Buffy.

Spike was solo for most of S4. The "Initiative" caught him, and he got a chip implanted in his brain so that he couldn't hurt humans any more. He spent a while chained up in Giles's bathtub, because they thought he might have some info about the big bad. If I remember, Dru shows up and gets him snacks. Eventually, he sides with the big bad, mostly because he can't do much evil by himself, and he definitely wants to be evil. He tries to split up the Scoobies, and almost succeeds.

That's it in a nutshell. If you need more detailed info, let me know. ;)

[littleshebear.livejournal.com]

God, I can hardly remember anything about season four...I blame Riley. :p

[isis-whit.livejournal.com]

Riley who? ;p

[winter]

Thank you so much! Willow being rambling suits me fine, since I want to give my dimension-travellers as much of a culture shock as I can.

As long as we're at it, what was the Scoobies' attitude towards Spike post-Adam? Stake on sight, laugh at him until he goes away, or something else entirely? :S

[isis-whit.livejournal.com]

Ahaha, Sunnydale would be a culture shock for everyone. XD

Well, Spike still couldn't kill humans and, at the end of the mess in S4, he helped the Scoobies out and saved their lives, so they were more like, "don't get near us, then we won't stake you". I guess he went back to living in the crypt, but not with Harm. She doesn't show up again till early S5.

[winter]

This particular set are a priest and a former vampire sorcerer from a vaguely medieval world, so I imagine their jaws will be dropping more at the California things than the Hellmouthy ones, especially since Gerald basically had a Hellmouth in his backyard for four centuries :D

Perfect, thank you! It's been a long while since I've written Spike, but I do love the bugger.

one later season of BTVS lover, speaking up

[selenak.livejournal.com]

My own take: Willow is definitely Wicca girl. Season 4 was when she started to go leaps and bounds with her magic, though not yet in a serious fashion, and of course magic was what founded the original bond between her and Tara.

Giles: as had been said, midlife crisis, unemployment. During the opening episode of season 5, he's ready to leave Sunnydale and only changes his mind at the last moment because Buffy (who doesn't know he's about to leave) asks him to be her Watcher again the old fashioned way, after her encounter with Dracula and The First Slayer made her interested in her Slayer heritage and disturbed about same.

Spike: crypt, but no Harmony yet. Spike and Harmony don't meet again after their season 4 fallout until the season 5 episode "The Real Me", and don't start to live together again until the season 5 episode "No Place Like Home".

Re: one later season of BTVS lover, speaking up

[winter]

Glad to see I was right about Willow - I want to base the whole thing on her randomly trying out a magic spell to locate any vampires who went through with the Shanshu thing, as a favour to Angel. Thank you so much!

[seraphim-grace.livejournal.com]

i gave up on buffy about the same time Angel started, i couldn't be doing with Reilly and just stopped watching, and Adam - Resident Evil people, he was the freaking nemesis.

but i know my way around angel like the back of my hand.
it's at the end of series 1 he learns about the shanshu prophecy (the ep is From Shanshu to LA) and they spend the next four series deciding what it means and they never agree. Christian Kane's character (who has a girly name I can't remember - the lawyer) starts it with bringing back Darla.
the prophecy suggests that if he does enough good deeds the vampire with the soul will become human again (but this also applies to later series spike) but it also might mean that he will die, that he will be sent to hell or all of the above. Wesley never does decide on the translation.
but, this is where Angel (imho is more adult than buffy) there is a few instances where they use prophecy against them, the whole thing with Angel's child where wesley reads that the vampire will eat his son becomes paranoid and to protect the child sends him to holtz. but it turns out that the guy who wrote it (again the name escapes me but he has real monster face and lives in a hole - brought holtz back from the dead) actually wrote it because the child will be the one to kill him and wanted to prevent that.
so, to summarise you can't trust a prophecy in angel because Wesley might not be able to translate it or it might have been put in place by an interdimensional force as a wind up.
and they never do go back to the PTBs

hope this helps

[winter]

Fortunately I've seen the entirety of Angel seasons 1 and 2 - the problem is, I don't see Wesley doing anything quite as stupid as randomly calling up any vampire who might know how to go about becoming human ;) Plus, I've a feeling the Scoobies might be more inclined to give Gerald the benefit of doubt rather than reaching for the nearest battleaxe...